Comments on: Ethics and HR in large companies – mutually exclusive? http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive Nirav Mehta on life, technology and future Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:45:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Sheena http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1#comment-132539 Sheena Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:13:49 +0000 http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/#comment-132539 Sonia, vijay and sabi are all the same person from L10Nbridge. Harman is none other than Deepak. I know these people..it is not surprising that they post comments defending themselves:))) P.S I work with L10NBridge and am using an alias just like these people did. L10 like to gather mercenary robots..and that speaks much of the quality of work they do. I am leaving L10 it is boring work Sonia, vijay and sabi are all the same person from L10Nbridge. Harman is none other than Deepak. I know these people..it is not surprising that they post comments defending themselves:)))

P.S I work with L10NBridge and am using an alias just like these people did. L10 like to gather mercenary robots..and that speaks much of the quality of work they do. I am leaving L10 it is boring work

]]> By: Nirav http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1#comment-91826 Nirav Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:05:51 +0000 http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/#comment-91826 Karuna: There is a fine line between attracting talent and poaching. Or unethical HR practices. I guess you are trying to say that big companies are teachers and small companies are kids. So kids should take whatever the teacher does as positive. I don't think that's correct. In the short term thinking of whose problem it is to "retain" and "attract" talent, let us not forget what we teach the young kids switching jobs! Karuna:

There is a fine line between attracting talent and poaching. Or unethical HR practices.

I guess you are trying to say that big companies are teachers and small companies are kids. So kids should take whatever the teacher does as positive. I don’t think that’s correct.

In the short term thinking of whose problem it is to “retain” and “attract” talent, let us not forget what we teach the young kids switching jobs!

]]> By: Karuna Sanghvi http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1#comment-91730 Karuna Sanghvi Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:39:12 +0000 http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/#comment-91730 To tell you the truth, I don't think Lionbridge needs to poach on your employees!!It simply attracts talent. You should take what Deepak Deshpande said positively. He is right...it is a career move for your staff. If I were you, I would get into a tie up with the company and share a talent pool. It is stupid to question ethics of an organization on an issue of this sort. If anything, he advised you that to retain talent, you have to pay it appropriately. This is simply not the manner in which you attack a peson in public. This is shameful to see you washing your dirty laundry like this by questioning the ethics of someone you hardly know. Please get your facts correct before you start a personal vendetta campaign. If you have not done enough to retain your employees then the problem is really yours and has nothing to do with Deshpande or Lionbridge whatsoever! Your reaction is like the child who refused to share his toys in school. And when the teacher took the toy to someone else, you started hitting out and bawling. To tell you the truth, I don’t think Lionbridge needs to poach on your employees!!It simply attracts talent. You should take what Deepak Deshpande said positively. He is right…it is a career move for your staff. If I were you, I would get into a tie up with the company and share a talent pool. It is stupid to question ethics of an organization on an issue of this sort. If anything, he advised you that to retain talent, you have to pay it appropriately. This is simply not the manner in which you attack a peson in public. This is shameful to see you washing your dirty laundry like this by questioning the ethics of someone you hardly know. Please get your facts correct before you start a personal vendetta campaign. If you have not done enough to retain your employees then the problem is really yours and has nothing to do with Deshpande or Lionbridge whatsoever! Your reaction is like the child who refused to share his toys in school. And when the teacher took the toy to someone else, you started hitting out and bawling.

]]> By: AjayNair http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1#comment-17284 AjayNair Tue, 21 Nov 2006 09:30:40 +0000 http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/#comment-17284 Nirav, Its a dog eat dog world... you win some and loose some..there is no use whining over it. I came here from Rashmi's blog, then checked out vultouro.. They kind of speak both sides of the story... In the long run burning bridges doesnt really work for you.. but then what if everybody is doing so...? how long is the long run really?evrrybody is poacing from each other .. what was once not ethical is pretty allright now...the point of references have changed, just as everything else has... I have to agree with people like vultuoro and others..I do see both the sides of the story..but then when you are talking of ethics and stuff.. then why have a clause???? can you answer that??? everyone is looking for the best deal...you, L10NBridge, MNCs, employees, and everybody else... Life is such buddy, when you have got into the business then you go to learn the tricks of the trade..learn to work around it...dont try to get even.. get better..move on... Forget about them , forget they left if you are so good then they lost!!! not you...it aint worth it.. you have 98 more people and dont loose them.. thats all I got to say... Nirav,

Its a dog eat dog world… you win some and loose some..there is no use whining over it.

I came here from Rashmi’s blog, then checked out vultouro..
They kind of speak both sides of the story… In the long run burning bridges doesnt really work for you..

but then what if everybody is doing so…? how long is the long run really?evrrybody is poacing from each other ..

what was once not ethical is pretty allright now…the point of references have changed, just as everything else has…
I have to agree with people like vultuoro and others..I do see both the sides of the story..but then when you are talking of ethics and stuff.. then why have a clause???? can you answer that???
everyone is looking for the best deal…you, L10NBridge, MNCs, employees, and everybody else…

Life is such buddy, when you have got into the business then you go to learn the tricks of the trade..learn to work around it…dont try to get even.. get better..move on…

Forget about them , forget they left if you are so good then they lost!!! not you…it aint worth it.. you have 98 more people and dont loose them.. thats all I got to say…

]]> By: lawgon http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1#comment-17272 lawgon Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:51:04 +0000 http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/#comment-17272 i have always tried to create an atmosphere where employees confide in me before leaving. *That* is a good organisation. The pay i can give is limited, the growth channels are also limited - i accept that. *You* may think that your company is heaven on earth - do your employees think so? And the surest way to make your employees fear you even more is to sue those that left. In fact, after your reaction to the leaving of two of them, the next to leave will probably go underground, change his name and whatnot ... I was reading godfather returns recently, and the attitude of many Indian companies reflect the 'family ideal' extolled there. Once in - never out. Defectors are terminated with extreme prejudice (read sued). i have always tried to create an atmosphere where employees confide in me before leaving. *That* is a good organisation. The pay i can give is limited, the growth channels are also limited – i accept that. *You* may think that your company is heaven on earth – do your employees think so? And the surest way to make your employees fear you even more is to sue those that left. In fact, after your reaction to the leaving of two of them, the next to leave will probably go underground, change his name and whatnot … I was reading godfather returns recently, and the attitude of many Indian companies reflect the ‘family ideal’ extolled there. Once in – never out. Defectors are terminated with extreme prejudice (read sued).

]]> By: Recruiting Ethics? « Unjustly http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1#comment-17268 Recruiting Ethics? « Unjustly Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:36:40 +0000 http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/#comment-17268 [...] Nirav Mehta’s company, Magnet, loses two programmers to L10NBridge, both of whom leave without serving any notice period. His HR calls Lionbridge HR to protest about this, only to be told that it’s Magnet’s problem to retain their employees, and to be given a lecture on the harsh realities of life after threatening that Lionbridge would poach the rest of their QA team as well. [...] [...] Nirav Mehta’s company, Magnet, loses two programmers to L10NBridge, both of whom leave without serving any notice period. His HR calls Lionbridge HR to protest about this, only to be told that it’s Magnet’s problem to retain their employees, and to be given a lecture on the harsh realities of life after threatening that Lionbridge would poach the rest of their QA team as well. [...]

]]> By: Himashu Jhadav http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1#comment-17127 Himashu Jhadav Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:00:23 +0000 http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/#comment-17127 The keyword is People and not lifestock. ! You are talking as if you own the 100 people in your company and Liongate stole lifestock from you ! GROW UP !! Iam an entrepreneur myself and never had a contract ! People come and people go some stick around for long time, this is how it works ! Its a fact of business that ANY BUSINESS, SMALL, BIG, MNC, LOCAL.... MAKES PROFIT ONLY BY PAYING LESS THAT WHAT EMPLOYEES EARN FOR THAT BUSINESS ! so its not a charity that you are doing ! Looser whine like you are !! Like a little buy who dropped his candy ! The keyword is People and not lifestock. !

You are talking as if you own the 100 people in your company and Liongate stole lifestock from you ! GROW UP !!

Iam an entrepreneur myself and never had a contract ! People come and people go some stick around for long time, this is how it works !

Its a fact of business that ANY BUSINESS, SMALL, BIG, MNC, LOCAL…. MAKES PROFIT ONLY BY PAYING LESS THAT WHAT EMPLOYEES EARN FOR THAT BUSINESS ! so its not a charity that you are doing !

Looser whine like you are !! Like a little buy who dropped his candy !

]]> By: Nilesh http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1#comment-17001 Nilesh Sun, 19 Nov 2006 14:21:48 +0000 http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/#comment-17001 Are you sure they broke the contract? I think all employment contracts contain some kind of provision for monetary compensation if an employee does not serve the notice period fully. If not paid in cash, the amount is deducted from the employee's final settlement. If the contract was not broken, referring to this as "unethical" is debatable. It is definitely "unprofessional" but this is the risk the resigning employee is willing to take. BTW, the perfect situation would be when an employee can negotiate the terms for his/her employment contract before joining the job. Instead, standard employment contracts are handed out with ominous terms when the employee is on the wrong side of the bargaining power scale. :-) Are you sure they broke the contract? I think all employment contracts contain some kind of provision for monetary compensation if an employee does not serve the notice period fully. If not paid in cash, the amount is deducted from the employee’s final settlement.

If the contract was not broken, referring to this as “unethical” is debatable. It is definitely “unprofessional” but this is the risk the resigning employee is willing to take.

BTW, the perfect situation would be when an employee can negotiate the terms for his/her employment contract before joining the job. Instead, standard employment contracts are handed out with ominous terms when the employee is on the wrong side of the bargaining power scale. :-)

]]> By: SABI http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1#comment-16801 SABI Sat, 18 Nov 2006 06:27:14 +0000 http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/#comment-16801 "If you have high regard for human values then just get rid of those clauses that restrict employees. Let employees know that they are free to go whenever they feel like. Encourage a free atmosphere. Set up a precedent where no one is afraid to talk to you about their plans and the actions they take to pursue them. Create that environment and that might work better for you." ________________________ Yes, it's a fact that money speaks more, especially in today's materialistic world, but after having worked in HR for quite some time, I realised that not every body leaves for money. There are various factors which make them leave. Especially the atmosphere, the freedom therein and organisation culture. I agree with the above points quoted above. It makes sense in creating such atmosphere that the employees feel free to approach their supervisor/manager and discuss about how they feel about their job content, how they are treated or for that matter what they feel about their salaries (at any given point of time, instead of yearly appraisals) than give a surprise by disappearing or a weeks notice. All said and done, there are all kinds of employees. Inspite of any good atmosphere some people do leave for money, but we need not generalise this behaviour. I have seen employees who decided to leave very tempting offers. But again, this is a fire fighting excercise. I advise employers to take all possible care to avoid creating fire in the first place. There are ways & means for it. It is a general tendency of anybody to first seek to be understood, than understanding others. As Stephen covy has mentioned in his book "7 habits", let's first seek to understand others then to be understood. It helps in solving most of the problems if not all, especially related to attrition. Looking at the scenario in the industry & social life, everyone of us should understand that there is lot of pressure on younsters. Moreover, hardly have they been stressed on moral education. All that they have been tought are to be competent and be financially ahead of their peers. So, what more could we expect from them than run after money. And added to this there are many people like Deepak who create pressures in a way. No doubt that there are some living examples, but these examples do not influence each and everybody. We cannot expect everybody to be an entrepreneur, or like one. Everybody's priorities are different. Another point raised by somebody was related to brand. Yes, it does make a big difference to most of the employees to work for big brands. They take pride in it. We cannot expect everybody to be enterpreneurs. Small companies do need to pay a price for not being a big brand. We cannot help it. Most of us are sailing in the same boat. Let us focus more on seeking a solution rather than be worried about the problem. SABI “If you have high regard for human values then just get rid of those clauses that restrict employees. Let employees know that they are free to go whenever they feel like.

Encourage a free atmosphere. Set up a precedent where no one is afraid to talk to you about their plans and the actions they take to pursue them.

Create that environment and that might work better for you.”
________________________
Yes, it’s a fact that money speaks more, especially in today’s materialistic world, but after having worked in HR for quite some time, I realised that not every body leaves for money. There are various factors which make them leave. Especially the atmosphere, the freedom therein and organisation culture.

I agree with the above points quoted above. It makes sense in creating such atmosphere that the employees feel free to approach their supervisor/manager and discuss about how they feel about their job content, how they are treated or for that matter what they feel about their salaries (at any given point of time, instead of yearly appraisals) than give a surprise by disappearing or a weeks notice.

All said and done, there are all kinds of employees. Inspite of any good atmosphere some people do leave for money, but we need not generalise this behaviour. I have seen employees who decided to leave very tempting offers. But again, this is a fire fighting excercise. I advise employers to take all possible care to avoid creating fire in the first place. There are ways & means for it.

It is a general tendency of anybody to first seek to be understood, than understanding others. As Stephen covy has mentioned in his book “7 habits”, let’s first seek to understand others then to be understood. It helps in solving most of the problems if not all, especially related to attrition.

Looking at the scenario in the industry & social life, everyone of us should understand that there is lot of pressure on younsters. Moreover, hardly have they been stressed on moral education. All that they have been tought are to be competent and be financially ahead of their peers. So, what more could we expect from them than run after money. And added to this there are many people like Deepak who create pressures in a way.

No doubt that there are some living examples, but these examples do not influence each and everybody. We cannot expect everybody to be an entrepreneur, or like one. Everybody’s priorities are different.

Another point raised by somebody was related to brand. Yes, it does make a big difference to most of the employees to work for big brands. They take pride in it. We cannot expect everybody to be enterpreneurs. Small companies do need to pay a price for not being a big brand. We cannot help it.

Most of us are sailing in the same boat. Let us focus more on seeking a solution rather than be worried about the problem.

SABI

]]> By: Vijay http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1#comment-16795 Vijay Sat, 18 Nov 2006 06:01:02 +0000 http://www.mehtanirav.com/2006/11/14/ethics-and-hr-in-large-companies-mutually-exclusive/#comment-16795 Vishal, I dont agree with u. LioNBridge is supposed to be a CMM Level 5 company. Whereas, Magnet is not even a Level 1 company. I dont think so ppl from Level 5 company will ever work for peanuts which Magnet offurs to the employees. And this is the main reason why people must be leaving magnet. Nirav, I have heard lot many good and bad things abt magnet. Good in terms of experience, which is very important for any software engineer. But I also heard 1-1.5 yrs back that the QA department is not at all standardised. Any QA engineer will look out for a good experience in QA which magnet cannot provides. Just working with 4-6 QA guys does not make QA team. There are many responsibilites too. But still! I dont blame Magnet in not being a CMM Level company. Nirav, if u beleive in ethics which u just blabbered on top of this page, then why do you bind the employees with the bond. You must be smart enough to know that Bonded labour is banned in our India. Just because all your clients are from US and UK you should not forget the Indian Laws. Please explain me how do you guys follow ethics and humanity over here? Please dont take me wrong, but I'm just trying to refresh your mind and warning you with further consequences due to this. Vishal,
I dont agree with u. LioNBridge is supposed to be a CMM Level 5 company. Whereas, Magnet is not even a Level 1 company. I dont think so ppl from Level 5 company will ever work for peanuts which Magnet offurs to the employees. And this is the main reason why people must be leaving magnet.

Nirav,
I have heard lot many good and bad things abt magnet. Good in terms of experience, which is very important for any software engineer. But I also heard 1-1.5 yrs back that the QA department is not at all standardised. Any QA engineer will look out for a good experience in QA which magnet cannot provides. Just working with 4-6 QA guys does not make QA team. There are many responsibilites too. But still! I dont blame Magnet in not being a CMM Level company.
Nirav, if u beleive in ethics which u just blabbered on top of this page, then why do you bind the employees with the bond. You must be smart enough to know that Bonded labour is banned in our India. Just because all your clients are from US and UK you should not forget the Indian Laws. Please explain me how do you guys follow ethics and humanity over here? Please dont take me wrong, but I’m just trying to refresh your mind and warning you with further consequences due to this.

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